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Home Letters To The Editor Marketing light rail on the wrong track


The 2002 transportation bill was defeated in a referendum.

A law suit regarding its unconstitutionality was pending since the judge said he would decide after the referendum (hoping he would not have to decide).

The 2006 transportation bill was found to be unconstitutional and contained a regional taxing authority that citizens could not vote for.

Both unconstitutional bills were voted for by most all the local delegates and senators, many of whom are lawyers and all of whom swore to uphold the constitution (and several of whom have since been kicked out of office - ed's note).

This includes our governor. Dishonest acts all that the public easily recognized.


To add insult to injury, the who’s who in Tidewater raised over $2,000,000 for a “Yes Campaign” to educate the public. Emotional arguments, downright misleading advertising and more failed to convince the public.

Fortunately, the public is not stupid as the elite believe.

Then there was a referendum in Virginia Beach regarding light rail with more emotional education efforts that the public saw through. There were no facts to support approving light rail.

Now, the same old “Yes Campaign” folks have started a “Light Rail Now” campaign to educate Virginia Beach citizens through a marketing program that they should be for light rail, even before all environmental impact and other studies are finished.

Editorials, guest columnists and letters are running hot and heavy. This is at a time when Hampton Transportation Authority is way over budget and schedule on the Norfolk light rail, when Norfolk admits that their light rail will reduce traffic and when citizens face more unemployment, higher taxes, reduced Medicare and other challenges.

They will be asked to support more debt for light rail that Norfolk says will average 16 miles per hour.

The following are some quotes pulled from the Virginian-Pilot website regarding light rail:

But not all light rail projects have been economic development success stories. "One thing that can happen is nothing," said Robert Dunphy, of the Urban Land Institute. "Transit advocates will claim if you put rail in, all of a sudden you'll have this money flowing. It's just not true.

Already, Norfolk has adopted a parking policy that limits the growth of downtown parking to encourage transit use.

A false picture has been painted about the military, that it needs light rail for mobilization. I have seen a letter from the Admiral in charge of the area supporting the concept about high speed rail but he mentions nothing about light rail.

Heck, it is not planned to run to the Navy Base so this is another emotional advertising ploy.

The Pilot’s editorial staff throws in some irrelevant emotion in one of its editorial discussing light rail by mentioning in 4 lines emergency evacuation. Duh!

In summary, the public needs honesty and facts, not slick, emotional advertising to sell and educate the public.

Give us the facts, just the fact.

Otherwise, we will recognize a con job when we see it.

Ben Krause - Virginia Beach
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Mike Barrett |67.62.94.176 |07-28-2010 03:42:02
Sorry, I can't waste my time reading this drivel. But one sentence caught my eye.

Krause says he knows better about the Navy's view than the Navy does.

Fact is, light rail can't deliver navy personnel to the Navy Base until it connects to the Beach where they live.

Krause's failure to understand this basic fact belies his comments about making the decision based on facts. He and the VBTA have been engaged in a strategy of disinformation in the past, and nothing has changed today.

The only good thing about that is it will signal the end of the moribund VBTA; none to soon. MJB sends!
Ben Krause  - What disinformation? |67.62.94.176 |07-28-2010 08:11:56
What disinformation? What did I say that is not a fact? Care to put this to a debate or are you afraid to do this like you have been in the past?
Are you a coward or not sure of your facts??
Rick Salyers |67.62.94.176 |07-30-2010 13:27:47
Didn't someone earlier ask Barrett about financial interests in light rail that he so artfully dodged with a generalized answer? Put this way: Mike do your or your company own any property that'll directly benefit from light rail, adjacent to or nearby the rail line? What is the zoning of the property at this time?
French Mackes  - Constitution Party of Virginia |199.111.115.73 |07-28-2010 09:14:49
Support buses for the public. Oppose VA Beach Light Rail!

If every VA Beach family actually paying income and/or property taxes pays $5,000 each for construction then another $500 or more per year to subsidize running it, a VA Beach light can be developed. It would primarily benefit people who pay no income or property taxes, are perpetually unemployed, and don't own a vehicle. It would benefit criminals, thugs, Section 8 housing dwellers, alcoholics, prostitutes, real estate developers, drug addicts, Marxists, Socialists, and corrupt VA Beach City Council members.

Support public buses. Oppose VA Beach Light Rail run by the government.

French Mackes
www.votefrench.com
Constitution Party of Virginia

Q - How many taxpaying families does it take to pay $5,000 each to pay just one developer $7.5 million dollars?
Mike Barrett |67.62.94.176 |07-28-2010 08:11:06
So French, why is a train a "marxist, socialist, wealth distribution scheme" but a bus is not?

Please, keep up your posts; they really lend credence to the assessment that the constitution party and its affiliation with the VBTA is the place for real wackos.
French Mackes  - Everybody Knows That Commies Love Trains! |199.111.115.73 |07-28-2010 15:40:09
C'mon Mike, everybody knows commies loves trains. Your a CEO. You should know these things...

(Pause)

Just kidding.

But, seriously, how many Beach taxpayers would need to pay $5,000 each in order for your company to earn gross sales revenue of $7,500,000 off of this unneeded wealth redistribution scheme to benefit people who pay no taxes?

I fully understand your motivation.

What kinds of car do you drive Mike? I doubt its a hybrid.

How do you sleep at night?

FDM sends!

Henry Ryto  - Buses Can't Alone |67.62.94.176 |07-28-2010 08:11:34
Buses can't do the job alone. We need some trunk LRT lines to relieve the major bus routes in the region.

If anyone believes buses alone can do it, I'll take you out on Route 20 (which roughly parallels the NS ROW) at rush hour. Simply impossible.
French Mackes  - Buses v. Trains |199.111.115.73 |07-28-2010 15:50:51
Henry,

Buses are a much more cost effective solution. Can't you see that buses make much better sense on numerous levels?

Buses schedule can be modified as needed. Unneeded bus routes can be cut to trim the budget. More bus routes can be added as needed.

Buses can pick up passengers at the end of the line Newtown Road (Norfolk) Light Rail Station and more cost efficiently bring those passengers to numerous locations the train will never go.

Does the one billion dollar price tag of VA Beach Light Rail concern you at all?

Does taxpayers subsidizing from 80% to 95% of the annual light rail operating cost each year concern you?

Why do you think the State of California is bankrupt?

Why do you want to bankrupt the government? What is your real motivation?

Mike Barrett has already publicly admitted, not even under oath, that he will benefit from VA Beach Light Rail.

Henry Ryto, will you also personally benefit from VA Beach Light Rail at the expense of VA Beach taxpayers?

I ...
Henry Ryto  - Opposition = Ignorance |76.161.1.44 |07-29-2010 03:49:49
Thanks for proving your opposition to LRT is grounded in ignorance. Prorating Norfolk's cost, Virginia Beach would be under $580 million, not the "$1 billion" you claim. Rail systems on average are subsidized about 55%, not the "80%-95%" you claim.

Very simply, buses can't handle well large volumes of people at peak periods. We need enhanced mass transit to relieve Route 20.
French Mackes  - Henry and Mike's Light Rail Envy |199.111.115.73 |07-29-2010 06:59:40
Henry,

Again, you are mistaken and incorrect. Your numbers are wrong. Actual light rail development cost in VA Beach would cost the taxpayers over one billion dollars.

Taxpayers would indeed subsidize the cost every year it runs in the 80% to 95% range.

Buses are a much better option. Buses go where the train cannot. They are much more cost effective and flexible.

Why do you want to bankrupt the government?

What is your motivation?

French Mackes
www.votefrench.com
Constitution Party of Virginia
Rick Saylers |67.62.94.176 |07-28-2010 17:12:38
Henry why can't they manage the bus service to more effectively serve the needs of the ridership? The flexibility of bus scheduling is much greater than for light rail.

If they can't manage the buses with their history of experience, how or why do you think they can handle something as complicated and costly per rider as light rail?
Henry Ryto  - Bus Management |76.161.1.44 |07-29-2010 03:53:25
Have you ever noticed those who complain about HRT's bus system being mismanaged are people who never ride the buses themselves?

I've rode HRT virtually daily for about 6 years now. They're better than the common perception. They will listen to constructive customer suggestions, especially with Townes gone.
John P. Kuchta, Jr.  - President |64.12.117.20 |07-28-2010 14:19:43
Why do some folks, Barrett, et al., not understand that many taxpayers in VB simply don't want the light rail because we can't pay for it. My industry, residential construction, has been decimated by Congressional miscalculation and financial sector greed. More taxpayer support now for big ticket items like light rail is simply not in the cards. Period.
Anonymous |216.54.27.206 |07-29-2010 10:06:22
Well Mr. Kutcha, you will be pleased to know that in Denver, the development of light rail has stimulated the construction of 16,142 residential dwelling units within one half mile of the stations. Fact is, realtors and builders frequently become strong supporters of light rail once they understand the nature of the stimulus. So as a residential builder, I would think you would welcome the stimulus to your business provided by light rail.
Rick Saylers |67.62.94.176 |07-29-2010 04:15:03
Henry, I wasn't basing my complaint on my lack of experience (I wouldn't even know how to board one of the things), I was basing it on your negative comments re: Route 20. As for buses handling large numbers, I suspect they can handle in a week all that light rail will serve in a month. It is much easier to add and re-route buses than fixed track rail. Right now, you don't see more than 5 people on the bus going down VB Blvd. I don't see the need for more.
French Mackes  - Constitution Party of Virginia |199.111.115.73 |07-29-2010 11:13:00
The fools in Norfolk already have wasted a tremendous amount of money on their unneeded and almost complete new light rail.

Now, the corrupt Mayor and some corrupt VA Beach City Council members along with corrupt developers want to waste even more taxpayer money on a VA Beach Light Rail linking to the nightmare of Norfolk.

Realistically, there are too many empty buses wasting money already.

Since they might actually succeed in developing Beach Light Rail it is better to minimize taxpayer money wasted. More buses would waste a LOT LESS taxpayer money that Beach Light Rail. As time passes, bus routes can easily be eliminated and buses sold.

Beach Light Rail wastes BIG $$$$$$$$$$$

Beach Buses waste much less $$

The public transportation advocates will keep making noise forever. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
alsaferstein |24.253.145.243 |07-29-2010 11:17:05
The motivation for LTR federal legislation was to mitigate congestion attributable within diverse transportation corridors.The City's vehicle stock is about 350,000 vehicles. Almost all are located within 248 square miles & support a population density of about 1735 people per sq mile. With an 85/15 tax base, VB is clearly a sprawling bedroom community. There is little evidence that the tax base will ever achieve a 20% commercial tax base given that the average has been about 85/15 since the mid 90's. Cities that do well with mass transit generally retain high density corridors and high commercial activity such as NYC & Chicago. One can only speculate that LTR may also transfer other businesses and households from other areas of the beach. Equally important, what percent of vehicles will light rail remove from the City to achieve congestion relief.
Mike Barrett |216.54.27.206 |07-29-2010 13:59:37
Al, not one person in this city really cares what the ratio of residential to commercial is. So please, stop making a fool of yourself and the VBTA by giving credence to a ratio about which no one cares. The important point is to stimulate commercial projects so they pay more taxes so we can play less.
al saferstein |67.62.94.176 |07-30-2010 07:23:27
Mike, you continue to regurgitate views that are incredibly naive but this one surpasses them all. "No one cares about the (tax base) ratio between residential & commercial"? That reckless observation should make some Vision members cringe. Mike, you relentlessly preach how vital it is to subsidize special interest projects to (purportedly) achieve commercial growth, yet clearly resist quantifying how much growth actually transpired. Looks like residential totally dominates the revenue stream in VB but lets not broadcast that it occurs w/o any meaningful ROI. Guess you would rather conceal that fact from our tax burdened residents Why? Because it disproves your often contrived claims of economic growth tied into subsidized projects. You seem to relish in promoting ca myriad of achievements as factual that are patently misleading. The real problem is that the omissions are typically very material omissions that are supported by a few City officials. Incidentally, my blo...
alsaferstein  - Mike continued |24.253.145.243 |07-30-2010 13:53:12
Incidentally, my blog discussed how many of the City's vehicle stock (over 400,000+) would need to be replaced by using LTR in order to satisfy your assertion that substantial congestion relief can occur in VB using LTR as the "alternative" option? Mike you have passed on the question several times. VNS readers & guests will be interested in your analysis so please respond. I also genuinely believe its important to distinguish why you believe urban renewal will work. I personally believe it will not financially benefit the marketplace unless the risk is "100% totally absorbed" by the open market. It is after all a business decision. I personally believe restoring the 987 aging neighborhoods will dramatically increase property values.
Anonymous |67.62.94.176 |08-01-2010 06:54:17
Al, you continue to make a very simple concept, that is, the growth in value of the commercial tax base, unintelligible by constantly referring to the residential commercial ratio. Fact is, what is important to measure is the growth in value of the commercial tax base, not the ratio. For every nickle in growth in the commercial tax base lessens the amount we homeowners/taxpayers must pay. Stop confusing the issue with this constant reference to the ratio; it only confirms the conclusion that you and the VBTA are misguided and out of touch.
Ben Krause  - Ignorant |68.225.42.104 |08-09-2010 14:09:31
The commercial real estate tax is based on its earnings, not its property value. Wake up.