Thanks for comments Bryan,
What about the Pelosi permission remark? Is that factual? Did not the final amendments issued at the eleventh hour not have provisions for Tricare, and subsequently Nye Voted it down? What about the franking flyer. Where in the in questions asked by the moderator was that germane, needless to say that no materials were permitted on the dias?

Wally

Wally,

I was at the debate, and my impression is there were a ton of Rigell supporters there..... because he has a ton of supporters in the community.

I also didn't get the same impression, I felt Rigell/Golden/Nye all engaged in a very civil debate. Did Rigell call Nye out on some of his votes, like supporting the stimulus? Yes, but I never got the impression he was ever over the line.

Wally, you miss the whole point. Light rail only makes sense in one corridor; that is, the I-264 corridor which is already over capacity, is at its ultimate width without condemnation of homes and businesses, and around which are oriented most of the major employers at the Beach and Norfolk.

Once again, no one is advocating the replacement of busses, only that bus connections be coordinated with the light rail spine.

It is unbecoming of you, a candidate for office, to make up myths, and then claim to debunk them. Why not simply start with the facts in the first place?

In fact, it is very surprising to me that you would advocate for expansion of I-264 which will involve displacement of homes and businesses if I-264 is to be widened. We can't afford it, and we should not cause that anguish for our citizens.

Light rail is the low cost, no disruption alternative.

Wally, thanks for that perspective. Clearly, the proponents of Rigell have posted other more exuberant claims on other forums.

Clearly, he is following the McWaters playbook with signs all over the place and the Cantor playbook with attacks on the Speaker of the House.

But what really does Rigell offer? Anyone who claims he has been a leader in this community has to do so with no reference to reality. He does have very rich friends, I guess that is his best attribute.

I'm sure they expect nothing in return.

You are entirely correct. One can easily expand/contract the bus system and run it where ever the need is. HRT has failed in trying to make the maximum use of buses, especially for Virginia Beach, even when we are the largest contributor. Buses can be equipped with devices to change the red lights as needed. Buses provide more employment than light rail. The roads are already in place for buses. Why ANYONE would want HRT in charge of light rail when they cannot efficiently and effectively run a bus system is beyond belief - if they are being honest. Unfortunately, developers are out to line their own pockets and thus are for light rail.

Editors note: You must be reading my mind. The next myth I will publish is "Light rail creates jobs!" - Wally

I noticed that Mr. Barrett doesn't actually offer any facts to refute the facts that others provide.

Is this a example of what we can expect from the business lobby's "Light Rail Now" PR campaign?

Probably.

Lucky for us that live in Virginia Beach, the majority of residents are too wise to fail to understand the utter lack of a compelling business case for spending at least $530M for 10.6 miles of low capacity light rail to connect Newtown Road to the oceanfront.

Even more good luck is that facing massive budget shortfalls Beach taxpayers will understand that adding at least another $8M a year to our local city budget to pay for the massive taxpayer subsidies to cover the operating costs of this tiny 10 mile light rail train wreck Beach voters will reject this "redistribute-the-wealth" plan that Mr. Ryto is salavating over.

What an alliance Henry & Mike make; the partnership of Freeloaders and wealthy developers looking to fleece taxpayers for their own gain.

LRN - does it really stand for "Let's Relieve Norfolk"; after all, isn't expanding Norfolk's 7.4 mile train wreck into Virginia Beach simply a plan to bail out Paul Friam and the rest of Norfolk's taxpayers who are now stuck with millions in new budget-busting annual costs to subsidize their tiny "Tide"?

This blog is useless except to keep people busy.
Henry has never seen a government program he does not slobber over.
Keyboard Commando Mike never confronts facts with facts and will personally benefit from light rail. He has never even been to a VBTA meeting and has no idea what it is about but yet he is the blog expert re VBTA. Hey, who defeated the 2002 referendum, who engineered the last light rail referencum, etc.?
Minds will not be changed in this blog.
If only Henry and Keyboard Commando had enough courage to debate the issue. No such luck! Whimps the both.

Henry, you seem to be very committed at making sweeping allegations as if your take on events represents a mindset that one size fits all. Rather than submit substantive info you rely on inflated innuendo's and you should know better. Do you actually believe that you share the same needs as all the tax burdened residents in this City? If my lifestyle revolved around having one source of transportation I might have a different mindset than if I did not have the use of a vehicle to get around with. Fact is VBTA is made up of people with diverse opinions, careers, families and lifestyles. No one controls my thoughts about issues and the debate on issues is wide open for any & all to generate his or her point of view. VBTA is simply a grassroots organization with a mandate to exert oversight on City policies & run away budgets that are often controlled by special interest.


All residents have different needs. Young families with children have different needs than empty nesters. Families with older children in college and of course those who are retired or single face different obstacles and of course all have diverse needs. The one common thread that links most households in this City is that many have made major investments in a home. The stability of our investment in our homes and neighborhoods is a top priority with most taxpayers including most members of VBTA. Many of the 170,000 households in this City pay property tax and fees that has soared in the past decade and a substantial portion of these expenditures are dominated by our homes and vehicles. This represents lots of tax dollars. In fact a significant portion of each households average tax burden is absorbed within each households budget and ever dwindling disposable income and savings.


Our neighborhoods, homes and families come first Henry. It just so happens that residents also serve as the primary economic engine in this City and also happen to serve as the primary taxpayer in this City. Collectively households support a not unreasonable notion, that a substantial portion of our tax dollars should be returned to each neighborhood in order to maintain, restore, and enhance our homes and our values. That revitalization must occur before LTR or any capital project that is not in the public interest which obviously includes school building, safety initiatives such as filling ditches or a sewage treatment plant etc.


A major portion of the multi billion debt ceiling is attributable to the residential tax base. About 85 cents of every $1.00 is off the backs of residential real estate assets and as such residents expect to receive a healthy proportion of those dollars (ROI) particularly to restore our aging neighborhoods. The ROl to our 985+ neighborhoods has been close to dismal. Many streets are in shambles and are in desperate need of repairs such as curb to curb repaving. To give you a contrast of the disproportionate distribution of tax dollars, the assessed value of the resort area hotel represents just 1% of our real estate tax base for the past 15 years. The ROI to the resort area far exceeds the proportional return that our neighborhoods desperately require. Unlike residents, the resort area also receives a major subsidy of Citywide tax, most of which is supported by residents. The resort receives a monumental 75% of all citywide room tax, 36.4% of all citywide food tax, and 100% of all citywide amusement tax. Each time a family goes to the movies, the taxes paid on the admissions ticket is returned to the resort area. Why? According to City documents the subsidies for all three of the aforementioned citywide subsidies to the resort area was $43 million alone in 1999 and that inestimable taxpayer subsidy goes on each year. There is no reason why residents should not receive most of the dollars absorbed by debt or distribution is there? They do not.


The real issue is not the value of the projects but the means on how you get to fund the projects. Will distribution occur through greed or will our hard earned tax dollars be distributed equitably to correctly satisfy the public need of our stockholders.

Even the proponents of light rail admit that light rail will not reduce traffic congestion. For example, one says, “Fact is, light rail will simply be an alternative to the automobile, but most will continue to use their cars in the I-264 corridor.”

Great! Taxpayers will spend huge amounts of our dollars to build light rail, buy hundreds of buses and pay hundreds of millions to operate and maintain the entire system and a few people may ride it and the roads will remain congested.

And they repeat, “Light rail transit does not significantly reduce congestion. It will be a supplement to the automobile…”

Fantastic - a billion dollar “supplement“ to our roads.

But they give the game away when they say, “But most important is to redevelop the light industrial real estate into communities along the light rail …“

This approach to redevelopment is in keeping with the buzz phrase “Transit oriented development.” Apartments, condos, retail and other real estate will magically spring up near the light rail stations.

One guess as to who will build the light rail system and all that “light industrial real estate” and laugh all the way to the bank.

One proponent whines, “Further, don't let Wally Erb tell you what you should do, better to decide for yourself. If you don't want to use light rail, that is up to you, not up to some guy with a blog. Who needs him to limit our transportation options?”

Neither Wally Erb nor Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance (VBTA) are attempting to tell the citizens of Virginia Beach to vote for or against light rail; to use/not use light rail or anything else. Wally and VBTA are presenting factual data so reasonable people can think and decide for themselves.

Unfortunately, we cannot say the same some developers.

Al,

The VBTA tries to portray as a subsidy any capital project that it opposes - which is virtually everything. The Third Crossing is a subsidy to "the port lobby". High Speed Rail is a subsidy to the railroads. Light rail is a subsidy to "developers". Let's not get started on Resort Area projects.

When the City held it's last Community Summit, residents were asked to list the City's Top 10 Successes. The entire Top 10 were initiatives opposed by the VBTA. You can't get anymore out-of-touch than that!

Well Al, the VBTA opposed the 31st Street project, now one of the most popular destinatins for visitors and residents alike, the Town Center, so popular that even the libertarians and Tea Party activists hold their rallies in the square, and of course, opposed the V.B. Convention Center which is the foundation of the fiscal dividend we get from the resort.

All these projects increased tax revenue and help keep our tax rate the lowest in the region. Of course, the VBTA opposed all of them and continues to oppose them in spite of the proof of the beneficial fiscal impact.

Taxpayers have a clear indicator; if they want higher taxes, do what the VBTA recommends.

Al, once again, LRT should be planned on 2040-2060 settlement patterns, not 2010. Also, it is absolutely false to claim BRT produces the same redevelopment as LRT. The only places it has done so is where it has been used as a spur to LRT.

Humorous to see some VBTAers now feigning "support" for BRT. First, you adamantly opposed it in 2005. Second, your Chairman of No Transportation has repeatedly called for abolishing HRT - in flagrant violation of Federal law. Third would the VBTA support BRT Newtown Road - Oceanfront without a referendum? What if the Alternatives Analysis comes back favoring LRT only to Town Center, with a different connection to the Resort Area?

Mike, sorry that your position is so weak that you have to rely on spewing hateful comments to concerned taxpayers. Why would anyone on VBTA arbitrarily oppose any commercial project unless it was unduly subsidized for special interest. That policy should spark concern from all stakeholders since you would be reducing the risk for one developer over a competitive developer who assumes all the traditional risks of his business decision. Clearly, that developer does not seek subsidies on what is clearly not risk free i.e T.L who just happen to build his own hotels with his own garage and that included all the vital components for his projects.

Al, we now know that the moribund VBTA opposes quality development, and opposes the increase in mobility afforded by light rail in the I-264 corridor.

To think your tiny group of misfits and angry old men really know what it best for the tax payers in Virginia Beach is ludicrous on its face.

Your have oppposed every project that has increased the commercial tax base and reduced the tax rate we pay to the lowest in the region.

Time to leave the stage. MJB sends!

Mike, There is an old saying you should heed. . ."It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to speak and remove all doubt." Anyone who reads your biased views will determine how divisive and thoughtless your rants have become. Most of your 3000 blogs on the Pilot follow the same unpredictable and tortuous path. You rarely finish a thought without incorporating a myriad of illogical subjects that are totally detached and aimless. Your arrogance and contempt for your fellow human being is only exceeded by your pretense to care about the Virginia Beach taxpayer.

Mike, you clearly do not speak for the 170,000+ households in Virginia Beach and neither does VBTA. Be assured however, VBTA is much closer in both deed and commitment to defining the monumental needs of our 170,000 tax burdened households. If you genuinely cared about the plight of our financially struggling residents you would be eager to discuss all of the economic implications of an action that could financially impact our 985 neighborhoods and 29,000 small businesses. Your utter disregard to bypass the vital restoration our 985 aging neighborhoods and support there financial well being is reprehensible, particularly, since you assumed the post of president of Visions. Your organizations membership includes a number of community minded regional banks, retail outlets, and public organizations who's obvious association with local residents is as professional and respectful as one might expect form prominent establishments that engage almost exclusively with the public at large.

For these reasons, I believe you should seriously consider following the astute suggestion by a recent blogger to immediately step down as President of Visions. National & regional organizations who are local members of Visions such as BB&T, Beach Ford, Freedom Ford, Merrill Lynch, Gateway Bank, Fulton Bank, Town Bank, Sun Trust Bank, Norfolk Southern, The Dragas Companies, Dollar Tree Stores, Children's Hospital of the Kings Daughters, Regent University, William Wood, can ill afford to associate with a titular head of a local organization who thrives at deliberately spewing rude and disparaging remarks in an attempt to demean the character of a grassroots organizations including its well intentioned leadership and its 900 members.

Regretfully, you have also embarked on a new campaign to alter Visions new direction claiming that all along you expressed that LTR "will not" reduce congestion. Fact is, you relentlessly have used the word "alternative" to describe the virtues of this project, We have 400,000 vehicles in VB and you can't resist promoting the false notion that LTR will support an "inexpensive" transportation option & serve as a substantial equivalent "alternative" for each commuter in Virginia Beach. Mobility is an empty sound bite when you cannot identify what percentage of our 400,000 vehicles will need to be displaced in order to render LTR as a viable "expensive" alternative to relieve the negative effects of congestion. Finally, perhaps the most serious consequence of this project is the continuing failure to identify the financial implications & methodology of the contemplated SGA.

Henry, it is all too true that our roads are congested and strategic lane expansion would be a desirable remedial action to help mitigate the deleterious effects of congestion, which of course includes issues of negative air quality. LTR is not the solution in VB, particularly, in a geographic area that is well off the beaten track of a major transportation corridor of Interstate 95. Having said that, the City of VB also retains 400,000+ vehicles including 340,400 registered vehicles and about 60,000 government vehicles. Therein lies the problem, LTR in the selected TC corridor will not reduce congestion to the extent that even a marginal amount of vehicles will be removed from the current stock of 400.000+ vehicles.
The population reliance on auto's in VB is generally amplified by the proximity of housing and businesses located within a geographic area of some 300 sq miles. A households reliance on its auto is increasingly attributable to the fact that VB is a sprawling bedroom community of over 985 neighborhoods. This is also supported by the fact that we continue to retain an average imbalanced ratio of 85% residential vs 15% commercial tax base since 2000 which included a similar tax base spread in previous years. Its important to stress that congestion relief was in fact the primary criteria that initially supported congressional legislation for the launch of the FTA.

If VB retained a narrow high density corridor that housed much of its population it would probably change the landscape to facilitate a practical need for LTR. It does not, however, there is no restriction to test BRT which requires much less funding and can instill the same business investment within the surrounding area as long as it occurs privately. Very much the way it occurs in many areas of the nation. Every homeowner builds his home with a garage and clearly many developers in VB have built hotels, office, or industrial buildings that included their own garage and in fact included every structural component necessary within each building infrastructure. This City needs to change the current inequitable policies that have promoted massive tax subsidies for projects that benefit special interest over the monumental needs of the residential & small business community. Economic development can occur by placing more disposable income in the pockets of struggling households who also support 140,000 homes that constantly need expensive component upgrades especially since the average home is 25 years.

The Siemens trains ordered for the Norfolk Starter Line have a top speed of 60 mph. We won't know the average Virginia Beach speed until the AA/SDEIS is back.

When our interstates gridlock within a generation, LRT will be faster.

Buses are a better, more flexible, and far less expensive option.

Un-needed Beach Light Rail Development would cost taxpayers as much as one billion dollars (adjusted for projected inflation).

It could cost every taxpaying Beach family $5,000 to build it and another $500 or more each subsequent year to subsidize it.

Most Beach taxpayers won't ride it.

The very few people who ride it mostly would not own a vehicle or pay income or property taxes.

It would primarily would benefit developers and corrupt elect leaders bribed to support it.

French Mackes
www.votefrench.com

Of course, those who have sat in traffic on I-264 know that travel times can be double the norm, and of course, since the Commonwealth has just cancelled the project to reduce congestion by rebuilding the I-64/264 interchange, conditions will just get more congested.

Further, don't let Wally Erb tell you what you should do, better to decide for yourself. If you don't want to use light rail, that is up to you, not up to some guy with a blog. Who needs him to limit our transportation options?

Fact is, light rail in the I-264 corridor is the low cost alternative to providing an additional choice to those who need better mobility. We can figure that out ourselves.

To tail off of Mike and try to bring this discussion full circle, I'll take on the VBTA then go to Light Rail Now (LRN).

Mike is essentially right about the VBTA, but sometimes for the wrong reasons. Yes, the VBTA is their own sounding board. It speaks volumes of how out-of-touch VBTAers are that they don't fathom why their Council candidates lose all the time. Residents know there are serious problems with the status quo, but won't vote for a change unless you give them a positive, constructive alternative. Bob Dyer proved in 2004 that if you give residents a choice between the status quo and a realistic and upbeat alternative, they'll vote for the latter. The VBTA's constant chorus of doom and gloom simply sickens rational residents.

As for Light Rail Now, light rail would be the end of the VBTA's crackpipe dream. A Newtown Road - Oceanfront LRT extension would permanently link our future to that of Norfolk (with Portsmouth to come). The VBTA's utter desperation on the LRT issue silently acknowledges that truth.

To the bigger picture, the business community sitting down and working with community groups scares the bejesus out of the VBTA, thus their venom at LRN. If they can work together on LRT, they can partner on other issues, too. That would also push Virginia Beach forward and help bring an end to the VBTA, an end that can't happen soon enough.